Hah! Yes, such well established logic. Straight people never get divorced, have custody battles, break up their families, or mess up their kids. Everyone has their right to an opinion unless that opinion affects the RIGHTS of other human beings. This is hate not love. I love God, do you?
Do you really love God, but not his laws…Mat_19:9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.
There is a reason the masonic law system was set up, it creates man’s law which ignores God’s laws, essentially giving license to sin…from abortion, to same sex marriagege, to adultery through divorce. And if two people are not born for eachother, was it really God that united them in the first place? Lust and love are not the same thing. Read God’s law closely, even a person who marries a divorced person (not widowed) commits adultery.
Rob- Of course heteros are prone to the same human weakness & wickedness. So let’s pile on some homo home breakdowns. Great idea. And I’m a hater cuz I disagree with you & your life-choices? Cuz I’m trampling on your RIGHT to change the very fabric & course of human society? And which god gave you this logic? Not the God who made us male & female, who loves us & sent His Son to be the ransom for our rebellion. He was executed in our place– so we might have the power to do less sinning, not more! This is the greatest love story in the universe. And you call it hate? The God who loves gays, straights & whoever- offers us power to change & live pure & loving lives. Yeah, I love that God. Do you?
Anyone who says marriage has always been between a man and a woman or that this is redefining human society needs to brush up on their history. Marriage was not excusively between a man and a woman until Christianity became the dominant religion in Rome in the 3rd century. Plenty of societies have historically recognized same-sex relationships and yes even marriages. And despite all the lies, countries and U.S states that legalized same-sex marriage have not become Godless, gay police states. Children are not being taught about gay sex and transgender “confusion”. Interesting sidenote: MA has one of the lowest divorce rates in the country and it has even dropped since 2002. Stop twisting the facts and realize that we all need to live together. The United States is not a Christian theocracy. You all have the right to your opinion and religious expression, but not to make it law.
Wow, Matt–What history books are reading? What rainbow-colored glasses are you wearing? “Marriage was not excusively between a man & woman til Christianity”? Try Jesus quoting Genesis: “A man shall leave father & mother & cling to his wife!” From the dawn of time, marriage has been the holy, life-giving, child-raising bedrock of civilization! (despite the detours here & there)
But hey, I can’t convince you of God’s wonder & ways with just a sarcastic cartoon & comments–Only irritate you. But if I could meet you in person, shake your hand, hug you neck, talk eye to eye, bro to bro— you’d see I’ve no hate at all for you. Nor do I want to see you harmed but helped by any laws.
God loves us and wants to rescue us out of our various forms of lust, hate, rebellion, selfishness, idolatry… to forgive us & make us like Him. That’s why Jesus came. No matter how America stands or falls, I pray you find His theocracy of the heart.
You do realize that the Bible was written strictly for a Christian society and that man wrote it? I mean, I can write a book and say “A man shall leave father and mother and cling to his husband” and if it gets popular enough, ignorant people such as yourself (I mean that in the fact that you are clearly just uneducated on matters outside of the Bible) will begin praising it and saying it is the truth and the way things have always been since the beginning of time.
I am a Christian. I am not saying that the Bible is wrong. But I am saying that 1) you should not spout hateful things (do not judge lest you be judged); 2) putting things like these cartoons up don’t show God’s love or that Christians are loving, it gives a bad name to God and Christians everywhere…why try to irritate if you are “only trying to show God’s love” to people?; 3) you should read up on your Bible more and see how not everything is applicable today (for many reasons) and even you, so high and mighty, do not abide by EVERYTHING in it (meaning you pick and choose what you like out of it); 4) I am a homosexual. God loves me and I prayed for many years to not be homosexual. One night, after battling for so long, I felt the presence of God in a way that I could never describe. In that moment, I knew it was okay. When my grandmother died, I prayed that God might explain to her why I never told her about myself. She came to me in a dream that night accompanied by a holy presence and they both held me as I cried and told me I had no reason to be worried. I was living a good life, I was a good person, and I was happy.
But hey, I can’t convince you of God’s wonder and ways with just a few comments-only irritate you. I have no hate for you or your stabbing, hurtful cartoons/comments.
I could debate with you for a lifetime, but it would be like talking to a wall. I’m not sure why I even went to the trouble of writing this, it will only fall on deaf, hypocritical ears (if you want to follow the Bible right down to the letter, I can say with certainty that you are way off already).
Wow, Nicole– for someone who doesn’t judge or cherry-pick which Bible verses to believe, you are pretty judgmental. Let’s see…I’m ignorant, hypocritical, high & mighty, closed-minded, deaf, a wall & probably a Bible robot. Gee I’m sorry you think I’m all that. You must have been hurt by some of those types.
And you think you could write a book lifting up sacred wedlock, the ways of God & man, & it could get popular & change millions of lives & inspire souls for thousands of years to live better lives, love beyond themselves & even die for their faith??? OMG! Do it!!! Dear sister, could it be that your lifestyle is steering your faith, rather than vice-verse. Who’s got the wheel?
Yes, God dearly loves you, Nicole. So much that He sent His only Son to take the punishment for your sins & be murdered in your place! But sorry, that’s just the Bible, written by men. Actually by over 50 different men, over a span of 6000 years, from all walks of life & lifestyles, who had the same encounter with the Living God. But no biggie, might as well read a magazine. Or any old book. You probably don’t need such a Savior.
So how do you know God loves you? It’s scary how you shrug off ages of Biblical wisdom, & build your whole life on an experience in prayer. That sounds very sweet, & maybe God really was comforting your soul. But…is that where He wants to leave it? Where you want to leave it? End of conversation?
You’re right, we can’t convince each other. You got your own walls. I don’t mean to irritate, hurt or demean when I poke fun at gays–just get under your skin, get some conversation going & maybe see some truth come out. I’m just some old dude who’s been loved out of my very scary, insane & sinful ways, wanting to pass on not condemnation, but a little of that comfort. But maybe you don’t need it.
Question: In the end, what book, man, woman, preacher, shrink, authority or personal experience will you bet your life & your eternity on? Ok, you’ve prayed & He’s said: All Is Well. But Nicole, I beg you, I dare you, to seek Him totally, no-holds-barred, gloves off, with an open heart. (Like Lt. Dan screaming at God on the mast of the shrimp boat!) Not hoping for the answer you want to hear. But come open, honest, dead serious to receive the Truth, no matter what it is, even if it means you’re right or wrong. I know God will come running to a heart like that. (Guess how I know…)
Dave, I will believe that my sexual attraction is a choice, if you tell me that your sexual attraction is a choice (after all, sexual attraction can not be seen)! If your sexual attraction is indeed a choice, then that means that you are sexually attracted to both men, and women. You therefore CHOSE to have sex only with a woman! The possibility therefore exists that you could have have sex with a man – and like it (since it is after all really a choice)?
When you admit that you are sexually attracted to both sexes, but have chosen to only have sex with a woman, then I will believe that homosexuality (and indeed sexuality) is a choice…. Until then, I will continue to believe that sexuality (like belief) is in fact a great mystery, and we really don’t know why we are attracted to what we are attracted to.
Heavy question, Paul. Love to dive into it more deeply over a long night of pizza & smoothies. But not possible.
Neither of us wants put the fire of God or the wonder of being human in a box. On one hand, I believe we are as a race created with yearnings sexual & spiritual written in our hearts. A longing for a mate, for family, for children, for purpose, for peace, for our Maker. But oh how we screw it up! One of our many detours is the gay trail, that societies experience more as they become prosperous, proud & passive (These were the gateway sins of Sodom, another topic.)
But is my sexlife choice or chance? um, yeah. We all have different chances & choices. Different sin for different men. One girl has an easy choice to be pure or be used. Another seems to be some kind of nympho! Another is kidnapped into prostitution! Each has a programmed set of choices. One boy makes the choice to forgive his dominating mom & abusive dad & finds comfort in a girl’s arms. Another boy may find himself bitter & seeking out male comfort. Another may lose himself in his career.
I’ve never been a clepto, but I’ve stolen & repented & got forgiven. Never been a bully, but I’ve hurt people, repented & got forgiven. Others seem to be programed toward anger, alcoholism or addictive personalities. But we each have to fight our own demons. I was wired massively hetero, but in my wild pilgrimage I’ve been tempted by all manor of sexual voices & choices, twisted temptations of head & life. So should I lock myself in some kind of trans-bi-confused-curmped little box?! No, I’ve just had to make choices within my battlefield, with God’s bigtime help!
Just because I had a proclivity toward women doesn’t mean I was meant to feed it any weird way I want! Just because you had a proclivity toward men, doesn’t you were meant to feed it!
No, we’re not all tempted to want gay sex. We’re dealt different cards. So, could I play the gay card & like it? Maybe, eventually. I know how flesh works. A molested kid will come to tolerate his abuser (Stockholm Syndrome) Given enough time & loneliness, we could come to enjoy most any substitute for Joy. Like a first painful puff on a cigarette, first yucky drink of alcohol, you get used to it, then dependent on it. But is it good for you? And do you still have choices?
So Paul, I totally admit this: that I am hopelesly, fiercely, spiritually attracted to sin of any kind & would try it, give myself to it & learn to like it–unless God came to rescue this monster of selfishness from destroying himself! Which He did. So…is that choice? um no, that’s Grace.
So the question’s not: Do we have a choice or are we locked into God’s chess game. But: How would He enter our lives to help us play out the cards we’re dealt? And how will we know what’s holy, right & real? What’s our North Star, our compass to guide us when our feelings, lusts, experiences & counselors are all over the map? No Paul, you needn’t believe you had a choice of your sexual vehicle or cargo; only that you have a choice now… of who’s got the wheel. And that’s your amazing mysterious destiny. And I believe you’ll find it in Jesus’ eyes.
“We are far more sinful than we’d ever dare to acknowlege.
And we are far more loved in Christ than we’d ever dare to hope.” -CS Lewis
Please tell me if I am wrong. What I read here is that you are most emphatically “not” sexually attracted to men (I was wired massively hetero). So (and remember you cannot see sexual attraction) what if I am wired massively homo by the creator of the universe? You cannot SEE what I really like, any more then I can see what you really like. Therefore, all we can do is “believe” what the other is telling us.
Faith in God is really just that… Faith – that there is a maker of the heavens and the earth (which I incidently believe, but that is my faith). What I am reading here, and in my opinion is the whole crux of the issue, is your “judgment”… again, based on YOUR faith (which cannot be seen) that sexuality is NOT a choice, we are created hetero (for the Bible tells me so). Anything that deviates from that Faith is therefore SIN. But, really, this all gets back to your FAITH in what the Bible tells you (I am not criticizing that, just merely stating it).
As far as my logic is concerned, I happen to believe (my faith) that the Bible is humanity’s understanding of God, at a point in time. It is NOT without error (I can point out many). In the Gospel of John (chapter 1), John says “No one has ever seen God”. For me, John is saying that we believe in God, because of the work’s of Jesus Christ (who is a “glimpse” of God). I read the Bible, as humans have always struggled with the same issues, over our time on earth. You raise the specter of Sin… What is Sin? I have always believed it is something that turns you away from your faith in God…it takes you away from your glaze on the almighty. Jesus was asked what the basis of the law is, and of course he restated the “shema”, to love God with all your being, and added “to love your neighbor as yourself”. On this lays the foundation of ALL the laws (so says Jesus). Therefore, if I do something that causes me to lose my focus to God, my neighbor, or myself, that is a sin. If I cause my neighbor to lose his/her gaze, that is a sin. For me, it makes all logical sense (otherwise, you get down to all the laws in the Old Testament, such as eating pork, eating shellfish, wearing two different types of fabrics as sin… all the stupid things people bring up).
I do not think that loving another person (who may have the same genitilia) is a sin, because it does not cause you to lose focus on the almighty. It also does not hurt that person, or cause that person to lose focus (I dont think you can make the same argument with multiple partners – ie polygamy – its rife with jealousy between partners, which only hurts those involved).
Just FYI, I actually came out in the church. I had done ALL the things you were supposed to do as a good Christian, and only through the Grace of God, did I finally come around to embracing who I was created to be. Also, I come from extremely excellent parents (no absent father, no overbearing Mother). My siblings are all heterosexual, and I was raised no differently then they were (we were all raised in the church). I personally go against all these little “theories” that you postulate here for the cause of homosexuality.
What causes us to be one way or the other? I do not know… I do know what I am attracted to sexually, and I cannot change that (although I did my best through prayer to change it). All I can be is what God created me to be, and be honest about it. I don’t think that God creates junk!
One other question I have always had, why is this such a big issue? Why do seemingly heterosexual men (its my observation that most of the energy comes from hetero men) care so much? Seems like they would WANT less competition for the female sex…and therefore would want a smaller male competitive pool!
Would love to know how you spend your Saturdays as well!! That IS the Sabbath, after all (the women didnt annoint Jesus body after his death, as it was the Sabbath). Isnt there a little “10 Commandment” that says you should keep Saturday holy?? Seems like the Bible has more to say on this, then on our particular topic…but that is another story.
Paul- You’ve come to many conclusions & have many confusions about many things…
God’s Owner’s Manual? So it’s just man’s thots on God? No, in truth, it’s God’s heart & history given to man. I believe the few minor mistakes can be explained (or maybe they’re left there to dissuade the shallow seeker!) The living God doesn’t hide Himself from the humble, desperate, honest, open heart– but He does from those who’d want to make Him into their own image. God isn’t your idea- You are His idea!
Why the big fuss over Same Genitalia Desire? What?! As if God’s creating us male & female was a casual whim! As if the very foundation of the human race is a minor detail! As if husbands,wives,dads,moms,children-families are just kind of a roll of the dice for our Maker! No big deal? As if homo-erotic desire is just another wonderful part of God’s grand design for His creation! As if same-sex attraction could never, possibly, maybe, just happen to be a Detour, another aberration, in a sex-crazed society.
My Sexual Preference? I tried to explain my pilgrimage & you missed it. My arena was hetero, yes. But I prefer, I was born to, Please Myself: To get off, to be turned on, by any & all ways my beastly bod would demand! I could have & still could, go to any sexual deviance or addiction I might FEEL like! But when I met the real Jesus- He not only forgave my perverted thots & actions, He gave me a heart to repent of my Self Rule. My Idolatry of Sex, My Worship of Women, and yeah, My Genitalia! He said: Gimme it all. And hallelujah, He became Savior of my Sexlife! And he gave me the grace to love one wife & raise 5 cool kids.
And, brother Paul, I believe when you meet Him- He will invite you to the same surrender. And love you right out your Tyrannical Libido! Your’s may be a same-sex arena, but it’s the same sin, blindness & idolatry. You’ll have repent of your Worship of Sex, the Orgasmic Idol, the Comfort of Men, instead the comfort of God’s Spirit. He will demand (& deserves)total ownership of all of you-heart, mind & BODY!
I know you’ve tried praying, but not like this. My hope for you? That you’d find your knees, open up your heart to your Father who loves you (but does not HAVE to answer you)& beg Him to show you what it means to let Him be Lord of your Sexlife, if He would take full ownership of your body.
And He’ll deliver you from trying to be hetero or homo- but just His. And from trying to keep a bunch of rules, lists & laws to please Him. We can’t. We’ve already blown that in spades & deserve Hell. And yet He loves us anyway! Let Him love you to death, Paul. (your body will follow along after…)
Oh also He’ll show you how HE is your Rest & Sabbath, not Sat or Sun– but All days.
Dave-I am an agnostic atheist, more importantly i am an anti-theist. this means a few things 1) I do not believe in a deity of any kind 2) I am open to “believing in” anything that can be observed, tested and recreated 3) I completely oppose all organized religions, although i find many of them intellectually and philosophically fascinating but they are all myth until proven true. For arguments sake lets assume that the god of the bible does exist, have you ever thought that things feel good for a reason, perhaps this god put pleasures in this world to make it just a little less shitty. why is sexual pleasure so wrong, why is it evil for connecting adults to engage in a deeply intimate, hopefully loving, and often “spiritual” relationship. addressing your “sex-crazed society” comment: homosexuality is not a product of our or any other modern society, or even humanity for that matter. Based on your “casual whim” theory one could argue that homosexuality is not just a mistake but intentional, how could something in so many species, created by god, be wrong or unnatural. Due to the fact that homosexuality is found in different species all throughout nature and because most animals are not fully self-aware and did not fall from grace as did humans this means that animals are still just as god made them and are not born with original sin therefore we can assume that animals are incapable of sin and are pure, according to these two bits of information it is safe to say that homosexuality is not a sin.
These concerns aren’t inherent to gay marriage rather gay couple child adoption. “Domestic chaos, Multi-home children, Parental confusion, fatherless children, custody battles, parenthood redefined, societal erosion, and gender confusion” would have already happend as gays have been able to adopt children for years and yet we still don’t see any of these harrowing, society-destroying, apocalyptic, terror that this comic would seem to suggest would be happening by now (which it hasn’t). Gay marriage is a idealistic battle the only real side affects you can gleam are “Marriage destroyed, Gay divorce epidemics, and legal chaos.” Now if you look to countries that have legalized gay marriage (or as they say in those countries ‘marriage’” they are not in total legal, social, and political chaos. These arguments are completely moot and you still have no reason other than your thousand year old prejudices as a reason to deny loving couples the right to marry one another.
Very interesting. Great points.
Hah! Yes, such well established logic. Straight people never get divorced, have custody battles, break up their families, or mess up their kids. Everyone has their right to an opinion unless that opinion affects the RIGHTS of other human beings. This is hate not love. I love God, do you?
Do you really love God, but not his laws…Mat_19:9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.
There is a reason the masonic law system was set up, it creates man’s law which ignores God’s laws, essentially giving license to sin…from abortion, to same sex marriagege, to adultery through divorce. And if two people are not born for eachother, was it really God that united them in the first place? Lust and love are not the same thing. Read God’s law closely, even a person who marries a divorced person (not widowed) commits adultery.
Rob- Of course heteros are prone to the same human weakness & wickedness. So let’s pile on some homo home breakdowns. Great idea. And I’m a hater cuz I disagree with you & your life-choices? Cuz I’m trampling on your RIGHT to change the very fabric & course of human society? And which god gave you this logic? Not the God who made us male & female, who loves us & sent His Son to be the ransom for our rebellion. He was executed in our place– so we might have the power to do less sinning, not more! This is the greatest love story in the universe. And you call it hate? The God who loves gays, straights & whoever- offers us power to change & live pure & loving lives. Yeah, I love that God. Do you?
Nobody will ever agree on this issue.
Anyone who says marriage has always been between a man and a woman or that this is redefining human society needs to brush up on their history. Marriage was not excusively between a man and a woman until Christianity became the dominant religion in Rome in the 3rd century. Plenty of societies have historically recognized same-sex relationships and yes even marriages. And despite all the lies, countries and U.S states that legalized same-sex marriage have not become Godless, gay police states. Children are not being taught about gay sex and transgender “confusion”. Interesting sidenote: MA has one of the lowest divorce rates in the country and it has even dropped since 2002. Stop twisting the facts and realize that we all need to live together. The United States is not a Christian theocracy. You all have the right to your opinion and religious expression, but not to make it law.
Wow, Matt–What history books are reading? What rainbow-colored glasses are you wearing? “Marriage was not excusively between a man & woman til Christianity”? Try Jesus quoting Genesis: “A man shall leave father & mother & cling to his wife!” From the dawn of time, marriage has been the holy, life-giving, child-raising bedrock of civilization! (despite the detours here & there)
But hey, I can’t convince you of God’s wonder & ways with just a sarcastic cartoon & comments–Only irritate you. But if I could meet you in person, shake your hand, hug you neck, talk eye to eye, bro to bro— you’d see I’ve no hate at all for you. Nor do I want to see you harmed but helped by any laws.
God loves us and wants to rescue us out of our various forms of lust, hate, rebellion, selfishness, idolatry… to forgive us & make us like Him. That’s why Jesus came. No matter how America stands or falls, I pray you find His theocracy of the heart.
You do realize that the Bible was written strictly for a Christian society and that man wrote it? I mean, I can write a book and say “A man shall leave father and mother and cling to his husband” and if it gets popular enough, ignorant people such as yourself (I mean that in the fact that you are clearly just uneducated on matters outside of the Bible) will begin praising it and saying it is the truth and the way things have always been since the beginning of time.
I am a Christian. I am not saying that the Bible is wrong. But I am saying that 1) you should not spout hateful things (do not judge lest you be judged); 2) putting things like these cartoons up don’t show God’s love or that Christians are loving, it gives a bad name to God and Christians everywhere…why try to irritate if you are “only trying to show God’s love” to people?; 3) you should read up on your Bible more and see how not everything is applicable today (for many reasons) and even you, so high and mighty, do not abide by EVERYTHING in it (meaning you pick and choose what you like out of it); 4) I am a homosexual. God loves me and I prayed for many years to not be homosexual. One night, after battling for so long, I felt the presence of God in a way that I could never describe. In that moment, I knew it was okay. When my grandmother died, I prayed that God might explain to her why I never told her about myself. She came to me in a dream that night accompanied by a holy presence and they both held me as I cried and told me I had no reason to be worried. I was living a good life, I was a good person, and I was happy.
But hey, I can’t convince you of God’s wonder and ways with just a few comments-only irritate you. I have no hate for you or your stabbing, hurtful cartoons/comments.
I could debate with you for a lifetime, but it would be like talking to a wall. I’m not sure why I even went to the trouble of writing this, it will only fall on deaf, hypocritical ears (if you want to follow the Bible right down to the letter, I can say with certainty that you are way off already).
Wow, Nicole– for someone who doesn’t judge or cherry-pick which Bible verses to believe, you are pretty judgmental. Let’s see…I’m ignorant, hypocritical, high & mighty, closed-minded, deaf, a wall & probably a Bible robot. Gee I’m sorry you think I’m all that. You must have been hurt by some of those types.
And you think you could write a book lifting up sacred wedlock, the ways of God & man, & it could get popular & change millions of lives & inspire souls for thousands of years to live better lives, love beyond themselves & even die for their faith??? OMG! Do it!!! Dear sister, could it be that your lifestyle is steering your faith, rather than vice-verse. Who’s got the wheel?
Yes, God dearly loves you, Nicole. So much that He sent His only Son to take the punishment for your sins & be murdered in your place! But sorry, that’s just the Bible, written by men. Actually by over 50 different men, over a span of 6000 years, from all walks of life & lifestyles, who had the same encounter with the Living God. But no biggie, might as well read a magazine. Or any old book. You probably don’t need such a Savior.
So how do you know God loves you? It’s scary how you shrug off ages of Biblical wisdom, & build your whole life on an experience in prayer. That sounds very sweet, & maybe God really was comforting your soul. But…is that where He wants to leave it? Where you want to leave it? End of conversation?
You’re right, we can’t convince each other. You got your own walls. I don’t mean to irritate, hurt or demean when I poke fun at gays–just get under your skin, get some conversation going & maybe see some truth come out. I’m just some old dude who’s been loved out of my very scary, insane & sinful ways, wanting to pass on not condemnation, but a little of that comfort. But maybe you don’t need it.
Question: In the end, what book, man, woman, preacher, shrink, authority or personal experience will you bet your life & your eternity on? Ok, you’ve prayed & He’s said: All Is Well. But Nicole, I beg you, I dare you, to seek Him totally, no-holds-barred, gloves off, with an open heart. (Like Lt. Dan screaming at God on the mast of the shrimp boat!) Not hoping for the answer you want to hear. But come open, honest, dead serious to receive the Truth, no matter what it is, even if it means you’re right or wrong. I know God will come running to a heart like that. (Guess how I know…)
Dave, I will believe that my sexual attraction is a choice, if you tell me that your sexual attraction is a choice (after all, sexual attraction can not be seen)! If your sexual attraction is indeed a choice, then that means that you are sexually attracted to both men, and women. You therefore CHOSE to have sex only with a woman! The possibility therefore exists that you could have have sex with a man – and like it (since it is after all really a choice)?
When you admit that you are sexually attracted to both sexes, but have chosen to only have sex with a woman, then I will believe that homosexuality (and indeed sexuality) is a choice…. Until then, I will continue to believe that sexuality (like belief) is in fact a great mystery, and we really don’t know why we are attracted to what we are attracted to.
Heavy question, Paul. Love to dive into it more deeply over a long night of pizza & smoothies. But not possible.
Neither of us wants put the fire of God or the wonder of being human in a box. On one hand, I believe we are as a race created with yearnings sexual & spiritual written in our hearts. A longing for a mate, for family, for children, for purpose, for peace, for our Maker. But oh how we screw it up! One of our many detours is the gay trail, that societies experience more as they become prosperous, proud & passive (These were the gateway sins of Sodom, another topic.)
But is my sexlife choice or chance? um, yeah. We all have different chances & choices. Different sin for different men. One girl has an easy choice to be pure or be used. Another seems to be some kind of nympho! Another is kidnapped into prostitution! Each has a programmed set of choices. One boy makes the choice to forgive his dominating mom & abusive dad & finds comfort in a girl’s arms. Another boy may find himself bitter & seeking out male comfort. Another may lose himself in his career.
I’ve never been a clepto, but I’ve stolen & repented & got forgiven. Never been a bully, but I’ve hurt people, repented & got forgiven. Others seem to be programed toward anger, alcoholism or addictive personalities. But we each have to fight our own demons. I was wired massively hetero, but in my wild pilgrimage I’ve been tempted by all manor of sexual voices & choices, twisted temptations of head & life. So should I lock myself in some kind of trans-bi-confused-curmped little box?! No, I’ve just had to make choices within my battlefield, with God’s bigtime help!
Just because I had a proclivity toward women doesn’t mean I was meant to feed it any weird way I want! Just because you had a proclivity toward men, doesn’t you were meant to feed it!
No, we’re not all tempted to want gay sex. We’re dealt different cards. So, could I play the gay card & like it? Maybe, eventually. I know how flesh works. A molested kid will come to tolerate his abuser (Stockholm Syndrome) Given enough time & loneliness, we could come to enjoy most any substitute for Joy. Like a first painful puff on a cigarette, first yucky drink of alcohol, you get used to it, then dependent on it. But is it good for you? And do you still have choices?
So Paul, I totally admit this: that I am hopelesly, fiercely, spiritually attracted to sin of any kind & would try it, give myself to it & learn to like it–unless God came to rescue this monster of selfishness from destroying himself! Which He did. So…is that choice? um no, that’s Grace.
So the question’s not: Do we have a choice or are we locked into God’s chess game. But: How would He enter our lives to help us play out the cards we’re dealt? And how will we know what’s holy, right & real? What’s our North Star, our compass to guide us when our feelings, lusts, experiences & counselors are all over the map? No Paul, you needn’t believe you had a choice of your sexual vehicle or cargo; only that you have a choice now… of who’s got the wheel. And that’s your amazing mysterious destiny. And I believe you’ll find it in Jesus’ eyes.
“We are far more sinful than we’d ever dare to acknowlege.
And we are far more loved in Christ than we’d ever dare to hope.” -CS Lewis
Please tell me if I am wrong. What I read here is that you are most emphatically “not” sexually attracted to men (I was wired massively hetero). So (and remember you cannot see sexual attraction) what if I am wired massively homo by the creator of the universe? You cannot SEE what I really like, any more then I can see what you really like. Therefore, all we can do is “believe” what the other is telling us.
Faith in God is really just that… Faith – that there is a maker of the heavens and the earth (which I incidently believe, but that is my faith). What I am reading here, and in my opinion is the whole crux of the issue, is your “judgment”… again, based on YOUR faith (which cannot be seen) that sexuality is NOT a choice, we are created hetero (for the Bible tells me so). Anything that deviates from that Faith is therefore SIN. But, really, this all gets back to your FAITH in what the Bible tells you (I am not criticizing that, just merely stating it).
As far as my logic is concerned, I happen to believe (my faith) that the Bible is humanity’s understanding of God, at a point in time. It is NOT without error (I can point out many). In the Gospel of John (chapter 1), John says “No one has ever seen God”. For me, John is saying that we believe in God, because of the work’s of Jesus Christ (who is a “glimpse” of God). I read the Bible, as humans have always struggled with the same issues, over our time on earth. You raise the specter of Sin… What is Sin? I have always believed it is something that turns you away from your faith in God…it takes you away from your glaze on the almighty. Jesus was asked what the basis of the law is, and of course he restated the “shema”, to love God with all your being, and added “to love your neighbor as yourself”. On this lays the foundation of ALL the laws (so says Jesus). Therefore, if I do something that causes me to lose my focus to God, my neighbor, or myself, that is a sin. If I cause my neighbor to lose his/her gaze, that is a sin. For me, it makes all logical sense (otherwise, you get down to all the laws in the Old Testament, such as eating pork, eating shellfish, wearing two different types of fabrics as sin… all the stupid things people bring up).
I do not think that loving another person (who may have the same genitilia) is a sin, because it does not cause you to lose focus on the almighty. It also does not hurt that person, or cause that person to lose focus (I dont think you can make the same argument with multiple partners – ie polygamy – its rife with jealousy between partners, which only hurts those involved).
Just FYI, I actually came out in the church. I had done ALL the things you were supposed to do as a good Christian, and only through the Grace of God, did I finally come around to embracing who I was created to be. Also, I come from extremely excellent parents (no absent father, no overbearing Mother). My siblings are all heterosexual, and I was raised no differently then they were (we were all raised in the church). I personally go against all these little “theories” that you postulate here for the cause of homosexuality.
What causes us to be one way or the other? I do not know… I do know what I am attracted to sexually, and I cannot change that (although I did my best through prayer to change it). All I can be is what God created me to be, and be honest about it. I don’t think that God creates junk!
One other question I have always had, why is this such a big issue? Why do seemingly heterosexual men (its my observation that most of the energy comes from hetero men) care so much? Seems like they would WANT less competition for the female sex…and therefore would want a smaller male competitive pool!
Would love to know how you spend your Saturdays as well!! That IS the Sabbath, after all (the women didnt annoint Jesus body after his death, as it was the Sabbath). Isnt there a little “10 Commandment” that says you should keep Saturday holy?? Seems like the Bible has more to say on this, then on our particular topic…but that is another story.
Paul- You’ve come to many conclusions & have many confusions about many things…
God’s Owner’s Manual? So it’s just man’s thots on God? No, in truth, it’s God’s heart & history given to man. I believe the few minor mistakes can be explained (or maybe they’re left there to dissuade the shallow seeker!) The living God doesn’t hide Himself from the humble, desperate, honest, open heart– but He does from those who’d want to make Him into their own image. God isn’t your idea- You are His idea!
Why the big fuss over Same Genitalia Desire? What?! As if God’s creating us male & female was a casual whim! As if the very foundation of the human race is a minor detail! As if husbands,wives,dads,moms,children-families are just kind of a roll of the dice for our Maker! No big deal? As if homo-erotic desire is just another wonderful part of God’s grand design for His creation! As if same-sex attraction could never, possibly, maybe, just happen to be a Detour, another aberration, in a sex-crazed society.
My Sexual Preference? I tried to explain my pilgrimage & you missed it. My arena was hetero, yes. But I prefer, I was born to, Please Myself: To get off, to be turned on, by any & all ways my beastly bod would demand! I could have & still could, go to any sexual deviance or addiction I might FEEL like! But when I met the real Jesus- He not only forgave my perverted thots & actions, He gave me a heart to repent of my Self Rule. My Idolatry of Sex, My Worship of Women, and yeah, My Genitalia! He said: Gimme it all. And hallelujah, He became Savior of my Sexlife! And he gave me the grace to love one wife & raise 5 cool kids.
And, brother Paul, I believe when you meet Him- He will invite you to the same surrender. And love you right out your Tyrannical Libido! Your’s may be a same-sex arena, but it’s the same sin, blindness & idolatry. You’ll have repent of your Worship of Sex, the Orgasmic Idol, the Comfort of Men, instead the comfort of God’s Spirit. He will demand (& deserves)total ownership of all of you-heart, mind & BODY!
I know you’ve tried praying, but not like this. My hope for you? That you’d find your knees, open up your heart to your Father who loves you (but does not HAVE to answer you)& beg Him to show you what it means to let Him be Lord of your Sexlife, if He would take full ownership of your body.
And He’ll deliver you from trying to be hetero or homo- but just His. And from trying to keep a bunch of rules, lists & laws to please Him. We can’t. We’ve already blown that in spades & deserve Hell. And yet He loves us anyway! Let Him love you to death, Paul. (your body will follow along after…)
Oh also He’ll show you how HE is your Rest & Sabbath, not Sat or Sun– but All days.
Dave-I am an agnostic atheist, more importantly i am an anti-theist. this means a few things 1) I do not believe in a deity of any kind 2) I am open to “believing in” anything that can be observed, tested and recreated 3) I completely oppose all organized religions, although i find many of them intellectually and philosophically fascinating but they are all myth until proven true. For arguments sake lets assume that the god of the bible does exist, have you ever thought that things feel good for a reason, perhaps this god put pleasures in this world to make it just a little less shitty. why is sexual pleasure so wrong, why is it evil for connecting adults to engage in a deeply intimate, hopefully loving, and often “spiritual” relationship. addressing your “sex-crazed society” comment: homosexuality is not a product of our or any other modern society, or even humanity for that matter. Based on your “casual whim” theory one could argue that homosexuality is not just a mistake but intentional, how could something in so many species, created by god, be wrong or unnatural. Due to the fact that homosexuality is found in different species all throughout nature and because most animals are not fully self-aware and did not fall from grace as did humans this means that animals are still just as god made them and are not born with original sin therefore we can assume that animals are incapable of sin and are pure, according to these two bits of information it is safe to say that homosexuality is not a sin.
*consenting adults*
These concerns aren’t inherent to gay marriage rather gay couple child adoption. “Domestic chaos, Multi-home children, Parental confusion, fatherless children, custody battles, parenthood redefined, societal erosion, and gender confusion” would have already happend as gays have been able to adopt children for years and yet we still don’t see any of these harrowing, society-destroying, apocalyptic, terror that this comic would seem to suggest would be happening by now (which it hasn’t). Gay marriage is a idealistic battle the only real side affects you can gleam are “Marriage destroyed, Gay divorce epidemics, and legal chaos.” Now if you look to countries that have legalized gay marriage (or as they say in those countries ‘marriage’” they are not in total legal, social, and political chaos. These arguments are completely moot and you still have no reason other than your thousand year old prejudices as a reason to deny loving couples the right to marry one another.